In this article I’ll go over some of the cards I think should be moved to The Hall of Fame this year. Were it up to me, I would move all these cards with this rotation, but some need to be moved more than others. I’ve separated them into categories based on how immediate the need is. I considered not only how oppressive these cards are when played, but also if they limit design space or create stale strategies.
Highest Priority
This section includes cards that are currently unhealthy for the Standard format or will be with this year’s rotation. They should be moved to the Hall of Fame this year.
Ice Block
While it may not seem oppressive right now, if you think back on the Meta between Journey to Un’Goro and Knights of the Frozen Throne, Mage was pretty crazy. Many of the cards that made Freeze/Burn Mage so strong come from the Basic or Classic sets, so each time we lose a year of cards this is likely to happen again. Combined with their freeze effects and heavy burst damage, Ice Block promotes non-interactive, boring games where your opponent plays solitaire until they either find their win condition or fail to and lose. This is what made pre-nerf Quest Rogue such an annoying deck to encounter, and while Freeze/Burn Mage is less frustrating, it’s just been around too long, and I’m bored of playing around Ice Block.
As someone who regularly plays Wild, I wouldn’t mind even seeing the card changed, unless a better answer to it appears. Cards like Eater of Secrets just aren’t good enough to counter Ice Block on ladder. Playing a 2/4 for 4 mana is so bad in any matchup where your opponent doesn’t have a secret, and while Flare is pretty decent, it struggles to be relevant against Mage decks running Counterspell, never mind that only Hunter can use it. I would say the best anti-Ice Block card in the game right now is actually Hydrologist, which allows you to generate an Eye for an Eye in the matchups you need it and something else in the matchups you don’t.
Considering that the last time the only neutral secret-destroying card rotated (Kezan Mystic) Blizzard simultaneously printed another answer (Eater of Secrets), it’s reasonable to expect a similar card in the first set of 2018. An example of the type of card I would like it to be is a 1/2 for 2 mana neutral minion with “Battlecry: Destroy a random enemy secret, gain +1/+1 if you don’t”. This type of card would allow you to play around oppressive secrets, while still having reasonable yet unrewarding stats against other decks, and like Hydrologist, you could actually include it in your deck when playing on ladder. If a less punishing answer to Ice Block like that was printed, it might not be oppressive enough to move, but it would still create stale strategies. A good example of this is Big Spell Mage. Players have removed all other low cost spells to get the most out of Dragon's Fury, but in most lists Ice Block remains, because it’s too good not to include.
Doomguard
Thinking about the Meta as it is now, the two most oppressive decks are Highlander Priest and Cube-lock. Highlander priest loses the backbone of it’s deck, Raza the Chained (along with Kazakus and Dragonfire Potion), so we don’t really have to worry about that deck anymore. Cube-lock however loses… Mistress of Mixtures? Unless some kind of hard-counter arises, I could see this deck getting out of control. Doomguard is hardly the only card that makes the deck strong, and if it’s moved to the Hall of Fame controlling Warlock decks will probably just fall back on their Voidlord/Rin, the First Disciple game plan, but I think that’s okay. If that deck ends up being too powerful, Spellbreaker, Polymorph and Hex (if they every print any more decent Shaman cards) will be there to balance it out.
Inevitable game-ending combos are the destiny of Control decks in Wild, as even with consistent card balancing that Blizzard is unlikely to do for that format, eventually there will just be too many powerful card combinations. This is also okay, a lot of players like blowing up your opponent in one turn, but if the post-Knights of the Frozen Throne meta is any evidence, having that type of deck exist in both formats for too long makes the ladder restrictive, monotonous and inescapable. Doomguard is a good candidate for the Hall of Fame for another reason: Zoo Warlock. That deck is not very high-tier right now, but it’s likely to be again, and whenever it is it almost always curves into Doomguard. That deck is actually good for the game in my opinion, it’s a budget friendly deck that’s easy to learn but has a lot of room for player growth. However, Blizzard wants Standard to be a format where “new strategies are constantly evolving”, and as long as Doomguard is in Standard it will probably be that deck’s finisher.
Archmage Antonidas
There’s not much to be said about this card that I haven’t already said about the previous two. Archmage Antonidas has been the centerpiece of four different combo decks in it’s time, three of which don’t care about your opponents life total or armor (Freeze Mage, Exodia Mage with Emperor Thaurissan, Exodia Quest Mage, and Exodia Mage with Leyline Manipulator). Doing infinite damage is fun, but one-turn kill decks have been plaguing the format throughout Year of the Mammoth, and I don’t think that’s healthy for Standard. Also, Standard is about to lose the only card it has that interacts with this style of deck, Dirty Rat. Removing Antonidas from Standard would help enable the return of value-based Control decks.
Medium Priority
This section includes cards that have been or could be oppressive, and likely will be again at some point. These cards should probably be moved to the Hall of Fame this year, but could wait for a future rotation.
Gadgetzan Auctioneer
Gadgetzan Auctioneer has been the centerpiece of all “Miracle” decks, this card has been very efficient at drawing cards and finding combo pieces in Rogue and Druid, occasionally in other classes as well. Last year, was only really oppressive in Jade Druid prior to the release of Ultimate Infestation (which didn’t solve the issue, it made it worse), but it’s been a problem in past formats as well, resulting in a nerf to it’s mana cost. Due to the nature of the card, it’s probably going to enable frustrating Combo decks again in the future, and rotating it to the Hall of Fame would free up design space to create similar cards or cards that would have otherwise been too good with it.
Nourish
Druid is rapidly acquiring mana ramp and draw effects. As a “choose one” card, Nourish’s value is a bit over the top, as either of it’s effects could merit including the card in your deck on their own. Rotating Nourish to the Hall of Fame would allow for more draw and ramp cards to be created in the future, and rotating it now would help decrease the reliability of Ultimate Infestation.
Silence
Priest was mediocre/bad for so long, it took until last year to realize that this card was actually good. Silence (keyword, not card) effects can stifle exciting cards, which is why Blizzard nerfed the more efficient ones (Ironbeak Owl used to cost 2 mana, and Keeper of the Grove used to have 4 health). At 0 mana, Silence (card, not keyword), is super efficient, especially when you can search it out with Shadow Visions. In metagames like this one with a ton of Priest on ladder, it can be hard to justify running minions that are weak to it. Raza Priest, the leading culprit, is about to get gutted by this Standard rotation, but at some point in the future Priest is bound to flood the ladder again.
Alexstrasza
Similar to Archmage Antonidas, Alexstrasza enables game ending combos. It’s easier to play around her, as combos she’s involved in usually take two turns to end the game, but it still promotes the “solitaire” style of play. If Ice Block gets moved to the Hall of Fame this might not be an issue, but as time goes on it’s likely Alexstrasza will be a relevant combo card again.
Low Priority
This section includes cards that aren’t oppressive, but promote stale strategies. These cards limit creativity or design space, and should be rotated eventually, if not now.
- Mountain Giant – As long as Control Warlock exists, it will probably run this card. Mountain Giant just synergizes too well with Life Tap. That’s not really a bad thing, but it could be limiting design space for other Warlock minions, and definitely promotes a stale strategy.
- Doomsayer – At this point you’re probably thinking I have it out for Freeze Mage, but if Doomsayer was a Mage class minion I wouldn’t be considering it. Doomsayer sees consistent play in slower decks that need more answers for aggressive starts. Moving it to the Hall of Fame would make players consider other early answers to Aggro decks, and allow for the design of similar cards.
- Bloodmage Thalnos – Thalnos isn’t overpowered or oppressive really, but it’s good enough to push out other Spell Damage minions. Tainted Zealot has been seeing some play recently, but mostly in addition to Thalnos, not instead. The card draw on Thalnos is valuable enough to include in some decks that don’t really care about the Spell Damage portion of it. Last year Azure Drake, a similar card, was rotated to promote diversity in Standard decks, and Bloodmage Thalnos could be considered for the same reason.
Nostalgia
This section includes cards that have been nerfed in the past, and would be fun to have in their previous form in Wild. If moved to the Hall of Fame, their nerfs should be reverted.
- Molten Giant – Molten Giant used to cost 20, so it would cost no mana at 10 life. I was never a fan of this nerf. I enjoyed playing Molten Giant and playing around it. Maybe not everyone agrees with me there, and I understand for new players that think they’ve got their opponent in check it could be frustrating to have two of these guys come down with a Sunfury Protector, but I miss it. Molten Giant has been largely useless since it’s nerf, and it would be fun to see classic Handlock again in Wild, although it might not be relevant. Naga Sea Witch is currently bogarting the Giant strategy and is likely to for a while unless changed.
- Force of Nature – This card looked very different before it was changed. Old Force of Nature cost 6 mana, but the minions had charge (and died at the end of the turn). Combo druid would run this along with Savage Roar to burst for 14 damage minimum from hand on turn 9 (or sooner with old Innervate). This got old pretty fast, but I don’t think it would be as oppressive in Wild. Current Aggro Druid decks try to end the game sooner than turn 9, and Combo Druid decks have a much higher damage ceiling (and ever increasing ability to draw into their combo). Who knows though, it might just have been too long since I’ve had to deal with it, but I think it would be fun to play with that combo again.
What did you think of the Nominees? Did I miss something you’re tired of seeing? Do you want to keep playing with one of the cards I nominated? Let me know in the comments!
You can tell this guy loses to Exodia Mage constantly, a OTKO deck that barely sees 42% winrates even in a slow meta. Ice Block could certainly be removed, that’s very annoying to play against especially when it’s generated form other sources, but Archmage Anthony should stay, if fireball’s the issue then go right ahead and nerf that but Exodia Combo is far less reliable than other OTKO decks like Force of Nature.
Doomguard isn’t the reason Cubelock is so horrible to play against, even when it’s free with Skull. It’s the fact if you don’t carry silence or polymorph it can get 25+ damage with the way Cube works. Simple solution, make it so Cube doesn’t duplicate the minion it eats, will also hit the Voidlord exploit. In Zoolock it’s only useful if you still have Malchz’s Imp to draw those cards back or you’re tapped out of cards anyways, or your opponent is almost dead anyways and Leeroy Jenkins would have a similar effect.
It’s true, that deck doesn’t win a lot, against most things. OTK Mage wins a disproportionate amount against value based control decks though. My issue isn’t how successful that deck is specifically, it’s that the presence of decks like that one encourage aggro/otk metagames, which are no fun for anyone. Also, as was suggested in previous comments, Sorceror’s Apprentice could be rotated instead of Antonidas, solving issue without rotating a class legendary.
You’re right, Doomguard is not the reason Cube-lock is so strong, but it is the reason it has such ridiculous burst damage. I suggested Doomguard because it fits Blizzard’s reasoning for rotating cards to the HoF, and I think Cube-lock should lose something with rotation (right now it loses nothing it cares about). Doomguard was fantastic long before Malchazar’s Imp, so unless you started playing since Imp was printed then I’m not sure where you’re coming from. Side note, I wrote this before the recent nerfs, I think it’s pretty clear now that Voidlord is 90% of the problem with that deck. If it were up to me it would get ruined.
I like your list alot. Would also appreciate preparation moving, which is a card I see most people miss. It’s Black Lotus (from mtg), and though it’s only for spells, it’s part of why Auctioneer is so powerful in Rogue. Mana ramp cards’ downsides are they push you up in mana temporarily, but you lose a card in doing so. When you just draw that card immediately with Auctioneer, it negates its own downside. Also, rogue has the most tempo oriented hero power, along with cards like backstab, SI7, deadly poison, and evis. – cards by themselves are fine – but when you can’t print rogue minions because of tempo (see keleseth), and you can’t print good spells because of prep, what can you print for Rogues? Basically nothing; see most of the rogue cards from all expansions.
I’d also like divine favor to leave. While it’s an averagely powerful card over a metagame, it’s a very binary card. It’s either “OMG THIS IS THE MOST POWERFUL CARD DRAW 7, 3-MANA HOLY SHIT” or it’s “wow this card is 3 mana draw 1 (maybe) in my aggro deck”. While the card is “balanced”, I’ve never felt it’s A) fun, B) skill intensive, or most importantly C) consistent.
A comment I saw recently was Power Word: Shield, which seems innocuous, but you consider it’s played in ever list (similar to Kobold librarian in Warlock), it limits design for early powerful minions for priest, and is crazy good with Lyra and Auctioneer. It’s also one of those cards that promotes a “28 card deck”, with 2 PW:S and 28 other good cards. Hope you enjoy my suggestion, and great article!
Thanks! Yeah I wouldn’t mind seeing any of that go, powerful Classic/Basic cards like those do limit design space a ton.
when is the rotation?
Last year it was in April.
Remove Alextrasza, Antonidas??? Why don’t remove the priest class? It can balance the game…
I hope this is a fake article.
Is Evident checking the articles written by others on this site?
Hall of fame’s utility is not to twist and upset the entire hearthstone mechanic
Priest is losing Barnes and Raza with the Standard Rotation already. These cards are necessary for the decks that make Priest so frustrating. Do you remember how mediocre Priest was for almost the entirety of Hearthstone before Big Priest and Raza Priest were around? Nerfing a class that’s about to lose its best stuff doesn’t make sense.
Sorry, I was sarchastic.
In this article you wrote about giving a lot of classic and important cards to the hall of fame.
It will upset the entire game.
Instead, I think blizzard have to reintegrate or repay (sorry for my english) classes lost cards.
For example they can add “jaraxxus fist” to the core warlock cards. In this way you incentivate discard mechanic and equalize number of class core set.
I dont think doomguard needs to go. The issue with cubelock is how easy it is to cheat out chargers and a taunt that kills an aggro gameplan. I think doomguard can stay, they just need to change the way on how easy it is to cheat out the doomguards and the voidlord in the deck.
Yeah but those cards are going to be in Standard for a while and I doubt they’ll get nerfed. If they did it would have to be right now, Cubes gonna be crazy post rotation.
To give my two cents on the matter, since the article sparked an interesting conversation: You seem to follow the logic that “HoF candidates are cards from the classic set that find themselves to be included in most decks of their class or, in the case of neutral cards, in most decks in general” and for the most part this logic isn’t off, but I think it incriminates cards that shouldn’t be HoF material. The point of the Hall of Fame is to promote new strategies, deck archetypes etc.
In order give:
Ice Block: I agree with this pick, especially with your way of describing the type of play it promotes as “solitaire”. Ice Block is too good not to be included, even in decks like Big Spell Mage where it genuinely doesn’t synergize in.
Doomguard: I might be biased, but I disagree specifically because I’m a Cube Warlock player. Doomguard has never been a “broken” card, specifically because his downside of discarding two cards is significant enough to make him balanced. Right now, he has even inspired a new archetype in Cube Warlock that could very well grow in future expansions and is one of the main tools for Zoolock. I think sending Doomguard to HoF would do more bad than good.
Archmage Antonidas: Although I think you raise a good point with Exodia, I don’t think the perpetrator is Antonidas, nor do I think he is a “include in every mage deck” sort of card.
Gadgetzan Auctioneer: I actually think Auctioneer really promotes originality in this game. The miracle-series of decks have been expanding beyond Rogue, making G-Auctioneer quite a pivotal card for ingeniuty in Hearthstone. The main strategy does remain the same, using Auctioneer to draw into the cards you need to win, but it is a significant enough card to promote combos and strategies that would never be possible were it not for this amazing draw engine.
Alexstrasza: I’m honestly not sure how I feel about Alex. You’ve got a point, but on the other hand I don’t feel I ever had a problem with her. On the other other hand it does seem like a pretty straightforward tactic to toss her on turn 8 and set up lethal the next turn….you might have a point here, author.
Doomsayer: I think this is an essential card for the game, but it does limit designer space. If a card from a future expansion could fill its place in some way, I’d agree. But I think it’s too important to be sent to the Hall of Fame.
Thalnos: I think you have a point here. Thalnos leaving could create space for ingenuity, although from where I’m standing he would just be replaced with Zealot.
Mountain Giant: I think you’re right, Mountain Giant is only run by Warlocks specifically because of Life Tap. I do love this card though, it allows Warlocks to be somewhat unpredictable in the first turns which makes games against them much more intense.
I don’t play Wild, so I don’t really think I can comment on the last two entries. I do think Force of Nature would make Aggro Token Druid too much to deal with, but whatever.
Thanks for the in depth reply, you make some good arguments. I wouldn’t say my logic was strictly Classic staples, for example I didn’t mention Acolyte of Pain, Ysera, Frothing Berserker etc. Cards like these have been consistent staples throughout Hearthstones history, but I don’t think any of them cause stale strategies or immediately overpowered ones. Standard is supposed to be a format where you see new decks all the time, and as long as cards like Doomguard exist in the evergreen set you’re always going to see them as prominent players in the decks they’re in.
Cube lock is a really strong deck right now, a fun one that takes some skill to play, but at this rotation all other strong decks are getting gutted, while it loses nothing. Maybe Voidlord, Possessed Lackey and Skull are the actual problem, but they create a strategy that is new and different, which is what Standard wants. Doomguard however is a tired card, and Kobolds and Catacombs proved that it does limit design space (if Voidcaller wasn’t evidence enough). So I think there are several good reasons to move it with this rotation in particular. This is coming from someone who loves the Warlock class and this card btw.
Someone in the comments suggested Sorcerer’s Apprentice instead of Antonidas, and I think that solves the issue just as well if not better. Also I don’t at all think it’s a “throw in every Mage deck” card, sorry if I gave you that impression.
Thalnos being replaced by Zealot is fine, but cards like Zealot will never see much playtime as long as Thalnos is in Standard. Thalnos is just strictly better because he draws you a card, so there’s no justification to run Zealot unless there’s already a Thalnos in your deck.
“thereâs no justification to run Zealot unless thereâs already a Thalnos in your deck.”
Zealot buffs Defile twice and synergises better in some Paladin decks because of Divine Shield – but SDI on it’s own is rarely good enough to make a card worth including, that’s what made made Azure Drake and Thalnos about the only SDI cards actually used before Zealot.
And Thalnos is a Legendary who’s ability is currently unique.
Fair enough. *there’s little to no justification
ice block alex si:agent backstap fireball and gadgetzan
i’d rather see frost nova and blizzard get nerfed rather than iceblock.
if we could pop ice block sooner quest mage wouldn’t ever be a problem
Exodia Mage (quest or otherwise) isn’t a problem … it’s a solution đ It has good win rates against Spiteful Dragon Priest (no defence against Frost Nova > Doomsayer unless they’re running Book Wyrm or Spellbreaker) and Control/Cube Warlock.
That’s balanced by the fact that Tempo and Aggro decks tend to stomp you into the dirt by turn 5.
it’s not about balance or w/l ratios it’s about nerfing boring non interactive gameplay
and i’d say quest mage is the #1 culprit
you’re basically playing solitaire
Boring is kind of subjective… I find aggro decks really dull, whether I’m playing with them or against them. Non-interactive – possibly – but the same argument can be levelled at Razakus Priest, Mill Rogue, Miracle decks or, to a lesser extent, any Control/Combo deck … the whole point of those decks is to control the board and say alive until your win condition is in place – face is NOT the place.
Whether your minions are frozen, just bumping into a half-dozen 1/5 Taunt creatures, are Vanished back to your hand or Psychic Screamed to your deck… it doesn’t really make much odds, it’s a pretty much guaranteed 1 turn stall by your opponent, to buy them time.
You can’t single out Frost Nova and Blizzard when several other cards serve the same purpose – the only difference with Mage is Ice Block.
I’m not going to support Qhantom’s comment here, but I think to say that the same argument can be applied to any control/ combo deck is a vast exaggeration.
Control/ Combo decks control the board, that means they essentially interact with their opponent every single second of the match. Opposing moves matter. Resource management is a big deal. Their life total matters. Their win-conditions often have room for failure.
Exodia Mage does not interact at all with their opponent. Their moves don’t matter because it’s simply stalling, no clearing/ removing taking place. There is no point in resource management, it’s an all out race with no planning. Life total? Please, we’ve got Ice Block. And their win-condition is the most ridicoulus win-condition in the game. It takes no thinking, it’s Pirate Warrior levels of brainless play. Don’t get me wrong: I do draw comparison between Pirate Warrior and the Fireball turn, but I’m not comparing the whole deck with Pirate Warrior.
I agree that “boring” is subjective and our opinions are similar when it comes to aggro decks, but you can’t argue the difference between Combo/ Control decks and Exodia Mage. Comparing Exodia Mage with solitaire is pretty much right on the money.
@WildRage – I did say to a lesser extent.
My argument was that Frost Nova and Blizzard can’t really be singled out as all combo decks use stalling cards – the big difference with Exodia Mage is Ice Block.
Cards I would like to enter hall of fame: ice block, Alextrasza
Card that could enter hall of fame: Gadgetzan auctionner
They are very well designed and give us a lot of pleasure; but it is time to them to go to wild format
I don’t want classic class legendary card to rotate out like Antonidas; or other card that define a class.
I definetely want Doomsayer to stay . It is a defense card. It allows some decks to survive against aggro and so allows some decks to even exist.
Someone else suggested Sorcerer’s Apprentice instead of Antonidas, which I think also solves the issue without rotating a class legendary.
Yeah, might as well send the whole classic set into HOF.
That would be soooooo much dust.
There are only 3 cards I want to see gone or changed. 2 of which weren’t even mentioned.
Ice block, ofcourse.
Equality. That’s just too cheap for the effect. A 4 mana board clear?
Divine favor. Should not be able to fill your hand for 3 mana.
And I don’t agree with doomsayers though. It’s a well designed card. I think it’s better if it stays.
Yeah Divine Favor is pretty crazy, wouldn’t mind to see that rotated. Equality is definitely an overpowered card, which might be why Paladin hasn’t been getting more board clearing tools.
If it was a couple years ago, I would add pre nerf hex to the list. But still don’t like that card. I wouldn’t mind seeing that leave either.
“Year of the Dragon”–>move Alexstrasza in Hall of Fame
seems logic….lol
Well to be fair I did put her in the “Could wait until a future rotation” section.
ice block is the one most people would like to see go, mage still has board freeze and the new armor gain elemental which allows them some still very o.p. stall.
Yeah I think Mage will be just fine without it, just different.
What a crap analysis, all you promote for ban are cards that make combo and control possible, if you ban all these you will have a 100% no brain, luck topdeck meta… good luck in destroying this already flawed game…
I disagree.
I feel your pain with the current meta, but theirs no need to diss people who are putting hard work and their own free time into making web page like these.
Aggro is a pain, and ice block does help prevent it along with alexstraza, but these cards have been around ages, and they deserve to live on in the hall of fame, and only there. Back when mech mage was a thing ice block was still used, and alexstraza, while awesome, just gets overdone.
If it’s gadgetzan auctioneer you would miss here, I understand a little bit more, as they are key to a miracle rogue deck, but they too are old and have been played so much they deserve to got to the hall of fame sheerly based on the number of decks they’ve been in.
The only things I don’t agree with removing are atonidas (Maybe that’s cause I just got them 2 days ago) and maybe doomguard(even if it was used in aggro)
That’s just my opinion though, is would love to here what you think should stay and go and why!
I think all the issues can be solved not by moving to hall of fame but bu ballance changes:
ice block: a player can be saved by ice block only once per game (more ice blocks don’t have effect)
auctioneer: make it rouge card
doomguard: I think it’s ok card. why get rid of standard card permanently if the problem is in expansion cards which will eventually rotate out
Agreed !
Second it.
Also, I don’t much have an opinion for Molten Giant and I don’t play Wild but I think Aggro Token Druid would become too powerful by the addition of pre-nerfed Force of Nature.
In general do you guys prefer balance changes over the Hall of Fame?
The problem is that people want to use these cards in their current form though. They just want a format where they can get away from it.
But nerfing basic cards kinda sucks.
For example, i really wish there was a mode (other than the current tavern brawl) where i can play oil rogue. Unfortunately, that deck is basically useless without the old blade flurry.
I m afraid that the rotation will be in favor of brainless decks like dragon priest, big priest cublelock or aggro paladin.
Why rotate cards that would kill miracle rogue ? It s one of the deck were it s necessary to use your brain and it s power is balanced by aggro decks.
I keep playing miracle even in this meta because the wins are so much more satisfying. Even if it s not the best winrate.
I just hope it s not the end of hard decks to play because just playing good minions on the curve or brainlessly pull hudge minions from your deck is not the Lindt of card game i want to see! And you?
Honestly, calling Cube Warlock brainless is blatantly untrue. It’s fairly complicated and rewards good players that think before the play, know their opponent’s decks and can play around their strenghts & weaknesses.
Believe me, a moron can’t win with Cubelock. Aggressive decks on the other hand, those are “auto-piloted” decks. To be fair though, this meta’s aggro decks are a far cry from the old cancer that was Gadgetzan Pirate Warrior and Aggro Shaman.
I desagree against control deck it s: wich one is the first who draw is combo/win condition, nothing complicated. And against aggro, mulligan for mistress of mixture or setting up a defile isnt what i call complicated. Same thing for highlander. Maybe you ll win/loose 15% of matches cause you make good/bad plays, but the rest is brainless play.
That’s not really the case. There aren’t really any genuine Control decks out there right now because of highlander, so I’ll asume you’re talking about Combo Decks. And you’ve got a point, it’s pretty much a “complete your combo” race. But that’s not brainless. If you don’t make value plays at the right moment, you’ll lose. Plain simple. For example, it’s pretty risky nowdays to play Possessed Villager on turn 5 because Priests run Potion of Madness. But you don’t want to waste your Dark Pact, you want to use it on turn 6 for your Carnivorous Cube. Recognising the moments you should waste your Dark Pact on Possessed Villager takes some consideration.
There are a lot of examples that prove you wrong. Another example is when it’s better to focus on Cube-cloning your Mountain Giants instead of collecting Doomguards for your Gul’Dan turn.
The “mulligan for mistress of mixture” is not really an argument. It’s as complicated as any deck’s mulligans. As for defile, it sometimes is complicated. Especially against Aggro Paladin, who often times lacks a 1 health minion. But quite honestly, aggro matches are the most straightforward. You’re just looking to survive until turn 6 when they’ll concede, it’s not supposed to be complicated.
Sorry, but Cube Warlock is definately not a brainless auto-pilot. It’s not the most complicated deck in the history of Hearthstone, but to compare it with the likes of “brainless” decks like Gadgetzan’s Pirate Warrior would be ridicoulus.
I agree that Cubelock isnât brainless, you definitely have to think about what youâre doing. The problem is even itâs Cubelock and Highlander Priest being very decision heavy, the outcome of matches theyâre involved in too often come down to who drew their necessary combo pieces first. I think the standard rotation along with any or all of the HoF candidates being moved would allow value matches with lots of decisions that actually matter to come back.
You got a point, it’s pretty much a “complete your combo” race. Although I think both decks have an advantage over each other:
Priest can definately mess up Warlock’s combo while if Highlander does draw their combo pieces the match ends.
On the other side, Priest has a more difficult time collecting their combo pieces because it’s like five cards in a 30-card deck. Warlock, on the other hand, has double copies of each card besides Gul’Dan, a Hero Power that allows him to draw and a lot of effects that thin out their deck. It’s a lot easier to draw their “win-condition”.
Tbh, if they move cards to hof I’d at least like them to replace those with new cards to standard. They could rotate cards from old sets back into those slots.
They probably will do this, I believe Brode talked about moving Shatter to the Classic set as an example.
Iâd like to see thease go:
Ice block
Preparation
Wildgrowth
Backstab
If your going to move a neutral I would go with doomsayer, then Harrison Jones. Toni isnât a problem. Alex is fine too.
I agree with preparation and ice block most on that list ( though I agree the others are vastly overplayed as well)
Preparation may just be because I hate rogues though :/
Two many triple keleseths for me to consider rogues nice
(BTW, it kept trying to autocorrect keleseth into molester for me, which seems all to fitting a name!)
Just hope doomguard go HOF
I think Edwin should be on the list.
Its a super high-rolly card with little to no drawbacks thats able to win matches on it on.
Add it to the HoF, switch Shaku to Classic and have a way healthier rogue playstyle
I wouldn’t mind seeing Edwin go, but the problem is probably more Prep and Backstab. Zero cost spells are really good.
I don’t think that can happen though..if I understand the logic behind Hall of Fame correctly, the cards need to be from the classic set.
Besides, Anduin’s not played in every Priest deck. The logic behind HoF is to bannish cards that are played in too many decks for originality’s sake, in other words to force us to find unorthodox replacements.
Scratch that, I mistook Edwin for Anduin man. Sorry.
Martian, which sets currently played now will be around after Standard rotates? I thought only Kobolds, but I seem to be wrong?…
Journey to Un’Goro, Knights of the Frozen Throne, and Kobolds and Catacombs will all be around for another year.
So, in summary, remove combo decks from standard?
Why not just play Arena?
I just think they’ve been too relevant for too long. They’ll be back again.
My personal HOF list would be (in order from worst offender down):
Ice Block: agree with everything you’ve said
Leeroy: in every aggro deck, has supported OTKs in the past
Alextraza: sees play beyond Mage, supports every slow deck with a burst finisher
Doomsayer: in every slow deck, nerf to promote diversity
Preparation: they nerfed Innervate but left this?
Edwin: in every Rogue deck ever, nerf to promote diversity
That’s a good list, I wouldn’t mind seeing any of that go. I’d be a little sad about preparation but I would understand.
So you basically want destroy Control Mage đ
I want to see Ice Block mage go. With it gone they can create different, more interactive defensive tools in Mage.
Well, very original to propose the best classic cards yet to be rotated out as well.
Dont know if blizzard payed for this article but you couldnt have done better in their view. This way you will finally remove the last hint of f2p of this game and will be finally perceived as what it is.
Blizzard has never paid for an article on this site and the insinuation is utterly ridiculous.
I dunno, the most F2P friendly deck has got to be Wild Inner Fire Priest, that deck will always be there for you.
My first thought is Cold Blood. If it’s not moved to HoF, it will probably be nerfed. The activation condition is easily outweighed by +4/+0 for 1. In contrast, the activation condition for Ice Block is to lose all your life. Ice Block does need more answers, but I don’t think it needs to be rotated.
If there were better ways to interact with it I don’t think it would need to be rotated. However, if there were better ways to interact with it then it probably wouldn’t be playable. I wouldn’t mind seeing Cold Blood go, but I’d be surprised if they rotated before moving or changing some of the other Rogue staples.
Well, that’s a stupid argument. Ice block sits there and activates when you need it to save you from death. Are you tryong to say cold blood is worse? Ice block should go.
I agree with most of these however I feel that doomsayer has a good place in the game right now, as it is a card that is completely useless in a lot of decks, but allows controlling decks to have a chance against an out of control aggro start, at its worst healing for 7. With aggro decks as prominent as they are right now doomsayer needs to stay for control decks to consistently be able to be competitive against aggro imo.
Furthermore I think doomguard is a very balanced card, I main cubelock (in fact thats the only deck I have), and there have been multiple cases you are stuck with one or two copies of doomguard in your hand that are almost completely dead draws. Sure if you can cube them you can do lots of damage, but if you can’t cheat them out they become very annoying in your hand. It really doesn’t need to be rotated, as its power level is nowhere close to oppresive imo.
It is true that if you draw cards in a bad order the deck can be clunky, but when Pirate decks draw Patches it’s devastating, and he’s still too strong. I agree that Doomguard is balanced, I would never suggest they change it, but that’s not the only reason to rotate a card. Azure Drake was rotated last year not because it was overpowered, just because it was good enough to prevent you from considering other options. I think Doomguard does that in Zoo lists, playing a different finisher is just worse, even if Doomguard isn’t too powerful on its own. Doomguard is likely to rotate eventually, but I think it is one of the best candidates for rotation that year because Cube lock loses nothing, and needs to lose something.
Yeah thats true, but the removal of doomguard essentially removes Cubelock, meaning that the only viable warlock deck will be the control archetype, which again takes a hit when nzoth moves out of standard. That change could make warlock as bad as it was before the k&C, something i don’t want to see.
I think Warlock could lose more than N’zoth and Doomguard and still be good, plus we don’t know what surprises Blizz has in store for us with the first set.
Yeah maybe, but I doubt it would be anywhere close to a top tier deck.
I agree: I want Doomsayer to stay in standard. It is a defense card. It allows some decks to survive against aggro and so allows some decks t oeven exists
Year of the Dragon coming in, can’t wait to see Priest out of the meta!
Spiteful Summoner and Inner Fire Priest will still be around, but it will be nice to be done with Raza Priest. Barnes rotates in April too, so Big Priest might be too meh to play đ
Big priest depends on barnes. Well, thats the only time i lose to them. Without being able to cheat out a minion before turn 6, I don’t think it survives.
I want old force of nature back. It was my favorite deck until it was gone. pls bring it back, because aggro druid now days is very boring.
It might be too much for Standard, but maybe now that innervate has been nerfed?
As for Ice block, it’s the only reason why there ever have been more than 1 viable archetype of Mage.
Without it, the class would have been as one dimensional in deck building as Hunter, with the only viable deck being the aggressive; “hope to highroll Mana Wyrm on T1, into 2 drop into 3 drop, do enough face damage with them and finish off with Fireballs” kinda mage (the minions can change – mad scientists and flamewankers, mech tribe, or arcanologist and kirintor, etc. – but the essence is the same).
I know the frustration of losing to Ice blocks and freezes as a minion based deck, but the hypocrisy of wanting more variety in the game (the usual argument for further nerfing/retiring of Classic set) and yet lobbying to actually reduce it, is pretty funny (for the lack of a better word).
Yea, there’s also the “hurr durr design space” argument, but the thing is they haven’t even tried giving mage any good control tools besides Ice block. Most of the effort on expansion cards for Mage were spent on propagating the random “created by X” cancer (which ironically, makes you people even more salty about Ice block due to the extra Ice blocks).
Arcane Artificer is the first actually good control card in forever – and despite the combination of the two with Ice block, it hasn’t really made the archetype too strong or too oppressive. Big mage doesn’t play Ice block just “because it’s too good not to include”, but because they actually _need_ it; just like every previous effort at making a slow mage viable depended on it.
But that’s the whole point. We’ll probably not be getting a lot of control tools unless Ice Block rotates.
Besides we also got dragons fury, which is a pretty decent control tool.
Mage has plenty of tools to make a new deck without iceblock. Even recent secret mage wasn’t running iceblock for a while. The problem isn’t you can’t make a deck without iceblock, it’s that why would you.
^What Syder said.
TL;DR – Let’s hope they continue gutting the Classic set into irrelevancy.
Can anyone explain the logic, why even have an evergreen set that supposedly the new/poor players can safely invest in and returning players base their decks off of, if there’s gonna be nothing worth playing left in it?
I can understand such motion from Blizzard’s perspective, that’s greed hoping to make the players buy more and more packs each expansion (however how long that’s gonna work out for them or just make a lot of people eventually move on from the game remains to be seen).
I don’t however understand why the actual players of the game would be so excited about it, if they really paused to think about the implications.
Personally I like change, and the evergreen set makes that hard. Itâs still a safe investment though, Blizzard refunds the FULL dust cost and lets you keep he card when they rotate it, so if you donât play wild you can dust it afterwards and actually profit from the rotation.
Leeroy Jenkins too, this card will always be played
Yeah I wouldnât mind that, or be surprised if they did it.
Some of them have been on my wishlist for more than a year as well.
Gadgetzan
Bloodmage
Alexstraza
Doomsayer
May I add Leeroy Jenkins?
Wouldn’t mind seeing iceblock go either although is it iceblock alone that creates such ”solitaire” decks? I think it’s a combination of cards. Iceblock in the current Secret Mage deck isn’t really having the effect you describe and quite an effective for triggering Mediv’s Valet or just surviving for one more turn to push that final damage. Sometimes the secret doesn’t do shit for you when you have it in the early game.
You make a good case for Doomguard though, but so far I’m not that annoyed by it. Silence should just get nerfed. 0 mana cards are simply unfair bullshit.
In the end all the good cards can be removed from the classic set eventually leaving only the mediocre to bad cards. Time for an evergreen type of set that rotates card in and out every now and then to keep things fresh.
Yeah I would love a âcoreâ set that rotates annually, but thatâs hard for Blizzard because they already promised Classic would stick around. I actually love doomguard, one of my favorite cards ever, but I think itâs been too staple for too long, and Cube lock is going to be out of control post rotation. Freeze Mage has many tools that promote an uninteractove style of play, but it canât do it without Ice Block. Ice Block makes your opponents board irrelevant, and Paladin is the only class with an answer to it that doesnât weigh you down in other matchups.
fun fact that control mage and freeze mage are actually high skill cap decks that most people cant really even play to a 40%. yes ice block can sometimes be a problem, but since i see a lot of players running golaka for pirates, do the same like you all did in ungoro meta for gunther mage. all in all, ice block is not a problem right now, and i dont think it will be in near future. i think u are a little too biased against mage(freeze control) cause u could state for example that turion is also auto include in control or most mid range paladin, so why not rotate him out as well? his power level is too good to the level control paladins dont even need their deathknight card. cards that generate more iceblocks are problems and blizzard should fix them so they cant give you any more iceblocks, cause i suppose it was sad for my opponent when i played 7 iceblocks in a row, then alex my face then frost lich đ
So no, with the skill cap the deck needs (freeze or control mage) and the weak spots it has, i dont think ice block need to go, for now
P.S. rotating out antonidas is just too funny, most decks are meme or fringe at best that run him, or just wombo combo decks that are too incosistant. So of course he has to stay
The issue with Ice Block isn’t the power level of the card, or the skill level of the decks it goes in. I actually enjoy classic Freeze Mage, but the strategy has been around too long, and if you think about it, at its core it’s the same strategy that all Mage decks use: hide behind Ice Block and blast your opponent in the face. Ice Block pushes Mage into a style of deck that is non-interactive and stale. Given the choice, would I rotate Tirion to Wild? Absolutely, but this article wasn’t “Why Blizzard should rotate every good card in this Classic set”. When Tirion is a meta staple there are things I can do about it. I can silence or polymorph him, I can kill him and then play a weapon destruction card to destroy Ashbringer, I could even steal him with Mind Control. There are plenty of ways to interact with Tirion, and within each of those methods there are multiple decent cards I could choose to do it. Each of those cards I could tech in for Tirion would also be useful in a plethora of other matchups. If I want to interact with Ice Block and I’m not playing Paladin I HAVE to run Eater of Secrets, crippling my deck against every other match I play. Even if cards like Tirion are a problem, they are not comparable to Ice Block.
If they would un-nerf certain cards like molton gaint, blade fury, big game hunter, and force of nature, I would agree that they need to be rotated. That would be a lot more fun than their nurfed versions. More good cards = more fun game.
I agree with Ice Block, Auctioneer, and Silence. I feel the same way as you about Doomsayer, and disagree with Archmage and Doomguard. We need some classic ânoob-yâ cards for the the first time players, and I donât want to see a classic class legendary rotate out.
Yeah it would be weird to have Mage be the only class without a Classic legendary, someone suggested sorcerers apprentice instead, which would also solve the issue
Maybe they can make ice block a legendary so decks wouldnât have two.
I’d be surprised if they did that, I think they’d be more inclined just to rotate it. The problem is that you can’t interact with it without handicapping your list against other decks. If they just printed a better anti-secret card that would solve the issue if they REALLY wanted to keep it around.
I vote we keep Archmage Antonidas and rotate Sorcerer’s Apprentice. Without Sorcerer’s Apprentice, Archmage Antonidas isn’t really that broken. I get that Archmage Antonidas appears more powerful in a vacuum, but Sorcerer’s Apprentice enables more broken combos. Also, rotating Sorcerer’s Apprentice would future-proof the game better than rotating Archmage Antonidas would, IMO.
Thats a good point, I like that idea
Removing Antonidas would also make Mage the only class without a classic legendary. Nerfing or removing Sorcererâs Apprentice does sound like a better take on the balancing issue.
I agree with most of these. One day it seems there will be no more cards left in classic though.
What if blizzard every year added back 5-10 âfan favoriteâ cards that rotated out back into standard to mix things up a bit? Wouldnât have to be limited to classic of course.
Yeah that would be nice, theyâll have to add more eventually one way or another. Classic has a LOT of cards compared to other sets though, so they have some room to cut things.