The Druid class has been a large topic of concern in the Hearthstone community in the early stages of the Knights of the Frozen Throne meta. Jade & Aggro Druid have dominated the ladder, and there’s been many calls for nerfs. Ben Brode took to Twitter and says there will be more to share about it this week!
Thanks for the feedback regarding Druid. We’ve been considering options and should have more to share this week. – Ben Brode
It was very unlikely we would have seen nerfs last week due to the HCT EU Summer Playoffs taking place and the decks already being submitted.
I don’t see the point in putting Innerv in hall of fame. Just nerf the card so it gives you back 2 mana crystal you used in the turn instead and it shoulf be fine.
first of all pls nerf spreading plague, creating same number of 1/5 taunt minions as your opponent with just 5 mana is crazy.
I second this
if you nerf druid, maybe you should nerf priest who can kill you will full health with his hero power..hmm..uhm..yeah you forgot about that one dident you..
right now this game is pathetic always losing match ups when going second and I always fucking go second coin is useless, second problem is card draw why the heck is there always double cards in my hand like what the heck is the cards doing, sleeping in my deck ?? So blizzard leave the nerfs and FIX the game fuck RNG and fix how cards are drawn from decks turn 1 two dragon fire potions that’s where I conciede thanks
I have to agree with a couple comments here. The fact that innervate is a basic card isn’t fine but cheap taunts is ok but when you innervate a cheap taunt, play a dude and buff sure it’s a strong play that’s all it is. What people lack is the mulligan sometimes you have to try and mulligan to try and have a early start and possibly removal in the case of your opponent playing aggro, and decent mid game for jade. The problem is Druid has an aggro deck and jade and sometimes you have an odd variant or a homebrew list of a current deck jade, aggro, token and there is no midrange strategy that is been proven besides midrange paladin(Which is the only deck that seems to have a decent chance) So what the real problem is that development has not provided classes with options to combat early game effectively, and support Midrange deck effectiveness against jade. Currently the game needs buffs to cards, and possibly nerfing the cheap taunts. Ultimate infestation is a win more card and an alternate to playing auctioneer but then people still play auctioneer to get infestation. The fact is jade is somewhat oppressive but just enough for balance innervate is pretty controversial for a basic card, it is a good card but free mana even for a turn is really powerful, but the overall power level of Druid feels close to the old days of midrange Druid but the aggro variant is able to devastate by abusing tools that were intended for a midrange Ramp class and cheap taunts pretty much made it worse so if they want to fix Druid stop making cards that abuse innervate. Every class needs a weakness no cheap taunts and little early game is druids it compensates with Ramp some ok removal and late game. Druid does not need an aggro playstyle, fledgling is ok but turn one fledgling turn two mark and innervate a two drop taunt is not ok. I’ve done it in the name of science and that’s the reason Druid is busted not the cards. Developers are not seeing that filling a weakness of a class turns it into near invincible and disrupts the game and causes problems I wish I could talk to brode for five mins and tell him this after playing MTG since it came out in early 90’s quit after the ban train hit modern hard and kept on going I know how dangerous bans or nerfs can affect the players and the game. Greed cards like infestation are ok cheap taunts and neutral cards like fledgling and Bittertide Hydra wich even impact arena are not fine, the former neutral card imo is better than the latter but all in all it’s starting to suffer from not having a future oversite committee for sets card design and interactions with current and the years future card releases. MTG suffered the same when development became lax and didn’t test all formats and interactions like players do and suffered from Poor set design not taking in factors and making cards without testing all the way. So really let’s not blame it all on innervate and infestation it’s the fact that mulligans are awkward and druid should have never had strategies for aggro that includes wild eggs too, that deck was pretty good before power creep. So sooner blizzard learns from this mistake sooner we can all move on with our lives and enjoy the game again. I sure hope this insight to the problem is accurate and I hope to see you all on the ladder.
I don’t think they can nerf Jade/aggro druid before APAC and NA prelims. Would be very unfair. What do you guys think?
They should before deck submissions if they do.
Everyone banned druid in the HCT that just happened, so I don’t think it really will make a difference.
I think that HS is better now then it was during MSG. Druid needs to be nerfed, its just way too powerful, even without a perfect hand.
i agree with one person beneath me who say,”For a multi-million dollar company, such a huge mistake must be extremely embarrassing.”..Yes it is..No because they don’t testing things before the expansion and they not see too in the others expansions how STRONG was already the druid,but they are ready to nerf (i believe) the druid after one month.One month….One month we come down in depression with all these rank 25 druids…Was the worst month in my life in the game and the expansion was the worst of all time..Because the cards was without reason or any specific purpose..The already STRONG druid get 5 massive cards and hunter need right now 2 decades to close the distance between them..Hunter get one card to become control but how can this class become control without basic STRONG cards?without good spells?without aoe?The most of the cards hasn’t any purpose..But the druid cards has a purpose..To become the jade,aggro,token and any other druid deck more strong..
These are very bad mistakes for a such a big company..And with all this mess we all lose.They lose money (for sure mine) and we are stop playing the game..All we lose.
The only matter right now is,blizzard give us a STRAIGHT nerf to those druid cards and not like jade idol nerf..pls mercy..Really mercy..sure geist???In 6 mana IF i have the geist in my hand,if i say,i am arleady dead against jade druids..
For the pirates right now i believe they are not so strong that people think..Pirates if they have perfect hand can beat anything..But if the have just a good hand they not..The problem with pirates is,they beat some classes 100% like control warlock,control priest,rogue ect..But lose in high rate against the other decks.I dont believe is so OP this deck..But yes is wrong made..You can’t have in 3 mana a 4/2 weapon that cost at least 4 mana and on the board you have 3 minions..This is wrong and yes this deck must blizzard fix it..Because anyone with good hand can beat players like kolento..
But as say the most problem right now is the druids (that always was my favorite class) and we must focus on this..I love druid in the past but now i hate him..I hate right now my favorite class because THIS month Blizzard was beyond words..
Druid should be balanced with Innervate in Hall of Fame and Infestation that can only target minions. It will make both Jade and Aggro be a little more fair.
I have no worries that priest will “take over” like most of you do here because that deck is so late game and so easy to counter. And it seems fair.
Jade druid is pure stupidity and makes you lose on spot if you don’t play a very aggressive deck or a specific counter for it. Mid-range decks are completely dead after the new expansion because of that deck and that should never happen in a game.
Absolutely correct on all points.
Innervate needs to go, or a bunch of cards are gonna have to be reworked. UI not being able to be applied to your face does not stomp that card into the ground, and returns it to some semblance of sanity.
IMO:
Nerf all the Druid Scarabs – no Taunt, just 1/5
Nerf the Druid 3-mana 1/6 – no Taunt, just 1/6
UI – make it a Choose card; 5 dmg + 5/5, or 5 armor + 5 cards
Jade Blossom – make it a Choose card: a Jade, or a mana crystal
Jade Idol – Cost 1 mana more each time it is cast in the same turn
Skulking Geist is a bad joke – Should be 1/1 and cost 2, in line with the other cheap tech cards.
Or else go Hungry Geist 1-mana 1/2 Battlecry: Destroy a Jade and gain +2/+2
Problem is, the more cards caught up in the nerf, the more egg on Brode’s face. So look for a band-aid, not a real solution.
Quest rogue was an issue just the first week, but community didn’t like it, they nerfed. What we solved? i got the dust and Rogue lost the only solid deck. Now people ask again for the nerf of Pirates without considering that is not the strongest aggro deck right now (both druid and Evolve shaman are more reliable). I think you guys rely too mutch on the list you find on the net. You want to play a dragon priest on a lower rank meta full of pirates? Add that spirit lash, the crab and an early taunt, survive over turn 5, gg. I can’t believe people still don’t menage pirate warriors! tech cards anybody? Face the fact that the pirate warriors are out there because there is a lack of aggressive archetypes on the ladder, and of course, Jade Druid. I used to love jade druid at the beginning and also in UnGoro, but right now is OP. Every time Druid is overpowered the evidence show that the only, real, overpowered card is Innervate: turn 1 fledging, turn 6 infestation, the old force of nature finisher at turn 6 and stuff like that. The issue here is that we really need a nerf but without destroy entirely an archetype, is it possible?
Great I sense card refunds on the horizon.. ruin druid so everyone plays priest..seriously why don’t designers make sure each class has competitive deck options that are more skill based rather than how much $$ u spend and just copy bs recipe.. oh wait it’s about $$ I forgot.. if they don’t start making other classes competitive I’m done with HS..I don’t mind dropping money on it , I spend at least $50 to $100 a month but I’m tired of having to face the same druid , priest, rogue every match…more options blizzard c’mon…with all that $$ we give you we deserve it..
It blows my mind how the design team could get this so wrong. Their internal testing must be absolute garbage. For a multi-million dollar company, such a huge mistake must be extremely embarrassing.
Agree.
You may can fix the cards / game balance, but at this point can the design team recover it’s reputation?
I had already referenced this in another post, but I repeat, one mistake I think players are making is blaming KFT (or the team that made it). Yes druid received two great tools, however, the problem is not the new tools themselves.
Between the removal of quest rogue and the entry of KFT, between rank 5 and legend was mostly played jade druid and aggro variants (overall pirates) reason why I feel that no alteration occurred.
And before the expansion with quest rogue (during Mean Streets of Gadgetzan) we saw three dominating decks: jades, pirates and Reno.
We lost Reno and quest rogue, but jades and pirates were always present. They have always been unbalanced and the main reason why they were in the shadows it’s more related with other cards that meanwhile “left the game”.
Aggro and Jade are two opposing poles that work extremely well, and the polarity they create in the meta reduces the viability of other decks by imposing two completely different requirements on all other decks.
About Jade Druid: The problem includes not only the sum over time of ramp and draw (which is somehow acceptable in a typical ramp deck) but: (1) the jade interaction with draw (a good example of it that’s not even needed to be used right now is Gadgetzan Auctioneer with the low cost spells, including Jade Idol); (2) the simple fact that a player can play two bodies (or a relevant spell and a body) with just one card (in a deck with ramp and draw), a deck where a player can easily and quickly control the board (because he produces more and bigger bodies) and replace the board. This problem it’s not a problem for shaman or rogue because of the lack in ramp-draw and the lack of Jade Idol and Fandral Staghelm.
About Aggro Druid: The tools that are making this deck to stand out are the small taunt minions. The deck is aggressive enough to play against jade druid and is able to control the game against another aggro deck, including pirates, with the new small taunt minions. Being as good as any aggro deck, but being good specifically against jade druid and pirates (which are the most dominant and predominant) it can easily be the most successful.
The problem with aggressive decks it’s around, but it’s not new. The problem lies (1) because of some low drops power level – in relation to – (2) the hight cost of mass removal cards.
About Pirate Warrior: The problem with pirates goes beyond the normal aggro deck due the use of weapons. The be able to use something to deal with this problem usually involves changes in the configuration of the deck, which in many cases end up weakening potential meta decks in one way or another, sadly removing some innovation and variability in the meta. Also, do not let yourself be deceived, the deck power is currently in the shade due to Aggro Druid.
KFT completely covered Big/Ramp/Jade Druid’s Achilles Heel… aggro. Druid had very limited options for cheap Taunts before KFT, even more so before Un’Goro (Shellshifter); Robo-cub in GvG was about it apart from the Neutral cards. If you didn’t get the ramp you would often die… that was the only balancing factor to things like Innervate.
Crypt Lord, Druid of the Swarm and Spreading Plague will just happily lock out most aggro decks even if the Druid doesn’t get ramp early on – giving them time to dominate the board and win. Far more effective than a couple of Swipes.
In these cases, while Ultimate Infestation may be OP as hell, it pretty much just becomes a “win more” card. Druid should not have access to good, cheap taunts; it was never part of the class design.
Crypt Lord and Druid of the Swarm, in aggro druid decks, they just counter other aggro decks. The reason why aggro druid decks work so well it’s more related with the great low cost missions (and not with 1/x taunts) and the lack of mass removal spells across some heroes, and/or the mismatch between the neutral cards that serve as hate and decks consistency and/or game plan.
This little taunts will only start being problematic in jade lists if we only see ramp being removed, because they will start being used to save time. Spreading Plague it’s a really good anti-aggro card, but sometimes it’s just a dead card… Yes it’s great to save time, and with jades or a pure ramp deck it’s even better than mass removal that class already have. The thing in my perspective it’s this, right now druid has more draw than any other class (including the main CONTROL classes!), but Ultimate Infestation it’s far to be the only one problematic draw card (or draw mechanic). With druid we have Wrath (1-2draw), Nourish (3-6draw), Wild Growth (1-2draw), Ultimate Infestation (5-10draw), Gadgetzan Auctioneer (…draw). Or we can use the druid “adaptability” to choose what they really need (example: Nourish, ramp or draw?) Also, even not being draw, you play a lot of duble cards, just like Jade Blossom, Jade Spirit, Jade Behemoth and Aya Blackpaw (with all the draw and ramp!).
If we cut ramp, we will probably only see slower versions of jade with more walls; if we cut draw, we will probably only see “normal” old ramp decks; and if we cut ramp and draw we will probably see more midrange decks (probably tier2, if not tier3) and a lot of new decks (currently dead due to jades) capable of reducing the aggro druid performance. I do not know if I’m right, it’s just my point of view.
I specifically excluded aggro/token Druid for that very reason – you’ve got a pretty good chance of beating other aggro decks without the cheap taunts because of the cheap minion buffs (Earthen Scales / Power of the Wild) or Innverate into early strong board presence – T1: Enchanted Raven > Mark of Y’Shaarj … or just Vicious Fledgling. Aggro isn’t really a weakness for aggro/token Druid – it’s more cheap board clears and direct damage.
The main defining features of Druid really are “Choose One”, Ramp and Card Draw (Malygos Miracle Druid has been a thing previously) – plus giant monsters of course. So, as long as you’re not playing aggro/token Druid, the general game plan has always, generally, been ramp up as hard as you can, replenish your hand with card draw, and build a board of insurmountably huge minions… then trample your opponent into the dirt.
The weakness with that is if your opponent quickly builds a wide board of aggressive minions – you die. Especially if you don’t get the ramp cards early enough; even with 2x Wild Growth, 2x Innervate and 2x Mire Keeper (or Jade Blossom) it happens. Hunter and Pirate Warrior match-ups were generally bad news. Now both easily countered with things like Crypt Lord, Druid of the Swarm and Spreading Plague – buying you the time to start dropping big things (or Aviana > Kun > lulz in Wild).
Druid should only have one or the other; ramp up _or_ good, cheap taunts – not both… and they had ramp first as a defining feature of the class.
Yes, Ultimate Infestation is seriously over the top while ramp is a feature of Druid… but personally I’d rather keep ramp (with Innervate) as part of Druid’s identity, nerf UI and ditch the cheap taunts – but that’s not gonna happen 😐
Fearing the druid nerf. Then we will only going to see highlander priests everywhere.
I’m happy they put so much effort into a free to play (not pay to win) game. Thanks Ben!
Great, there goes all my hard earned dust and gold, thanks a lot you FRACK’N whiners!!!
I mean if every HS platform, pro and streamer is calling for a nerf, and half of those are warning people in their crafting guides not to craft Druid cards right now than mayyyyyyyybe this one is on you.
I got 2 ultimate infestations in my packs on release day so I dusted old legendaries in order to craft what I needed to finish the decks. Well before any of the call for nerf’s began.
Thats why you don’t craft things on release day. The streamers also warned about that
You will still get your dust back at full value. If they nerf anything you will be able to disenchant it for the full value
Unless they nerf something like Innervate which would kill Druid and gain me nothing.
I’d be amazed if they moved Innervate to the Hall of Fame mid-season (which is about all you could do to it really)…
Far more likely to be something relatively innocuous, like making Ultimate Infestation all 4s (summon a 4/4, draw 4 cards … etc.) and maybe putting a spawn cap on Spreading Plague or upping the cost… and Druid will carry on much as before.
Let me put it to you this way you have two busted cards you got innervate on the early scale of things and you got ultimate infestation on the late scale of things both cards synergy is way to overwhelming in jade and turn one innervate into fledgling is in most cases a 80% to win right there
Is getting boring…
First, they need to fix their game’s team and then we can talk about nerfs.
This year HS is the worst of all 4 (include CB).
So much RNG, unbalnce cards, almost 0 skill and people that don’t accept loose (flames, blames, etc)…
All these lead to NO fun at all.
new team required for sure, i don’t know if they are lazy or what, but they need to design archetypes for all classes, and test all 9 classes x 9 classes, decks will not emerge from caos, only the old handlock emerged from caos and was destroyed for no reason. blizzard makes the decks anyway and not players.
Is not enough have a fun archetype, we need fun matchs against all classes, that is the most important
If the game requires 0 skill, why is 50 % of all players below rank 20 and not battling for high legend? There are always flamers, get used to it. You won’t have contact with them unless you watch them stream which you are not forced to do. Also, the majority of players just wants to have fun.
I am still having fun playing HS so your conclusion is wrong.
Over 50% are rank 20 to 15 and they are there cause those aren’t playing at all or playing just for their quests (casuals) and leave.
So, I’m not wrong…
If HS was fun then those 50% of players would battling for higher ranks or legend.
Many good players also have switched for other ccg games… Such as Gwent that is more skill focused and more generous at rewards.
I’m playing many ccg/tcg games and HS was my favorite till this fking year… Now Is far from the word fun anymore, believe me.
If you have fun then I’m happy for you, really. 🙂
Cheers
P.S.> Speaking for skill. Even if I’m considering myself as a very competitive player (not a Pro), last season finished 3rank in standard and 4rank in wild with the same deck… If you didn’t guess right, my deck was Pirate warrior. And reached those ranks from 17rank in about 3 days by playing just 3-4h max. This has nothing to do about skill at all, is about blizzard’s “fun” meta that forced me to play a “cancer”/brainless deck to ladder.
Over 50% are rank 20 cause maybe don’t have 3-4h a day cause they have a life and play to chill out. Mostly are f2p or new players. (did you see the decks at low ranks?) and a lot of them maybe still have to learn how to play. I’m not a competitive person, i’m not interested about the legend rank, i don’t have time and i’m a f2p player, i just like laddering a bit and sometimes i finish rank 4-5 (last time was june rank 5) but usually i finish around 10. What is the difference between you and me? I have a 20 year experincence in ccg/tcg and i don’t care about the rank. Why you play pirates if you don’t enjoy pirates? nobody forced you, is your choice. speaking for skill: i don’t use the pirate warrior on ladder, last season i did rank 8 with quest warrior and miracle rogue. My decks of choice for this season are Murloc paladin, Control paladin and Secret mage, is not better a lower rank with a deck that you like? Maybe i enjoy the game because my pourpose is having fun, not ranking, and doing this way, i rank :-D. see you on ladder
Heh… I play mostly casualy (just on the phone at work), pretty much just doing daily quests and I have legend almost every month… So, yea… They are all rank 15 because they don’t play a lot.. sure..
I would be happier if they got rid of that ridiculous pirate Patches!
He has wormed his way into decks where he does not belong.
I’ve got no problem with Druid.
I really don’t think they should nerf so early..
Says the druid.
Yeah, go team druid! (?)
Please… no fanboyism here.
Says the whiner.